tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post2291107775149781115..comments2023-06-12T06:58:06.277-07:00Comments on Nj's arya blog: Approaching rice domestication in South Asia: New evidence from Indus settlements in northern IndiaNirjhar007http://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-29479272475527522602018-04-05T06:14:43.332-07:002018-04-05T06:14:43.332-07:001. Can be NRI related.
2. Indo-European speakers ...1. Can be NRI related.<br /><br />2. Indo-European speakers are there too.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-10402440468824854672018-04-05T01:22:34.664-07:002018-04-05T01:22:34.664-07:00At yfull.com/tree ,In Arunachal Pradesh,I am seein...At yfull.com/tree ,In Arunachal Pradesh,I am seeing 16 R1a , 16 H, 12 R2 , 8 L, 4 J2. So, i have two doubts <br /><br />1. Are you aware of any study having Y-DNA data from AR because i am not ? I also don't think that so many people from AR would send samples for private tests :) .<br /><br />2. How do we have such deep penetration of "mainland" Y-DNAs in AR ? I was expecting O's and D's but i didn't find that at yfull.com. tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-63224249735725434722018-04-01T09:00:49.183-07:002018-04-01T09:00:49.183-07:00Yes, I agree and it is funny indeed :).Yes, I agree and it is funny indeed :).Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-91998081452571382172018-04-01T07:45:33.314-07:002018-04-01T07:45:33.314-07:00Nirjhar, not sure if you know this but with the cu...Nirjhar, not sure if you know this but with the current scenario where jaatis are vouching for the "backward" tag (oh,the irony !) in order to get reservation and freebies (as already seen with the inclusion of new jaatis under the OBC tag),don't you think such kind of changing mobility (at least on paper) will change the haplogroups distribution when future research takes place ? (jaatis which were placed as high or middle will be counted as low lol)tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-4579109306837544192018-03-30T02:27:53.173-07:002018-03-30T02:27:53.173-07:00I see :).I see :).Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-34429990959915234092018-03-29T23:56:36.864-07:002018-03-29T23:56:36.864-07:00A bird once told me that he has conversed with dr ...A bird once told me that he has conversed with dr chaubey and he told that Dr Chaubey is a supporter of arrival of "certain people" between 2500 BC - 5000 BCtim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-56817364166598133952018-03-28T21:25:46.104-07:002018-03-28T21:25:46.104-07:00Yes its possibly Roma.Yes its possibly Roma.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-51784485030139508042018-03-28T10:46:33.636-07:002018-03-28T10:46:33.636-07:00Thanks, will read the PDF . Some people place RgVe...Thanks, will read the PDF . Some people place RgVeda earlier with the earliest hymns composed prior to 3000 bc. Sardinians do have some R2 Y - DNA. Do you think it's the result of Roma incursion ? tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-59360279765480499342018-03-28T06:22:11.989-07:002018-03-28T06:22:11.989-07:00About the dating of RV, I think dating it to 2000-...About the dating of RV, I think dating it to 2000-1500 bc makes good sense. See this beautiful research about chronology :<br />https://www.academia.edu/7683313/The_Chronology_of_Puranic_Kings_and_Rigvedic_Rishis_in_Comparison_with_the_Phases_of_the_Sindhu_Sarasvati_CivilizationNirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-39772069764877973622018-03-28T06:13:37.415-07:002018-03-28T06:13:37.415-07:00"But for Indo-Iranian, they are still favorin..."But for Indo-Iranian, they are still favoring steppe with no alternatives." --- I think this is because of the admixing that his model detected during the 4200-1900 YBP and steppe-like ancestry present in ANI. Forget the indo-european stuff for a sec ,how old do you think the RgVeda is ? It's definitely not 3500 year old imo tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-757723730652226122018-03-28T05:29:45.805-07:002018-03-28T05:29:45.805-07:00somewhere near Turkey/ Northen Iran then ? On what...<i>somewhere near Turkey/ Northen Iran then ? On what basis does he say that ? Iranian_Neolithic like ancestry in Steppe dudes ? </i><br /><br />I think because of the spread of CHG/Iran ancestry ,that spread to steppe cultures from Eneolithic and also the absence of any Steppe related ancestry in BA Anatolia, so far and also insignificant presence of it in Mycenaeans.But for Indo-Iranian, they are still favoring steppe with no alternatives .Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-55175512770734000922018-03-28T05:02:36.843-07:002018-03-28T05:02:36.843-07:00" But imo they should be indigenous, we will..." But imo they should be indigenous, we will see soon" -- I am very skeptical on being able to extract high quality DNA from ancient skeletons in south India ( the climate isn't conducive), may be we can get some skeletons from the himalayan regions.<br /><br />"BTW I am hearing Reich in his book explicitly says, that he's own opinion is that the PIE <br /> homeland was south of the Caucasus! :) " -- somewhere near Turkey/ Northen Iran then ? On what basis does he say that ? Iranian_Neolithic like ancestry in Steppe dudes ? <br /><br />tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-18401886345587645932018-03-27T21:34:06.634-07:002018-03-27T21:34:06.634-07:00i think the sub-structuring and the strict marriag...<i> i think the sub-structuring and the strict marriage practices that the communities maintained for close to 70-80 generations with very low gene flow across them might be one of the reasons for the decline in last 1000 years. A dude known an Narendranath Dutta once told something similar some 100 years ago however he was no scientist :)</i>.<br /><br />I see :).<br /><br /><i> he's R1a1-L657, he told me that out of andronovo,sintastha, ust_ishim and Malta boy , he had the highest match with Ust_ishim and then with Malta and lowest with andronovo and sintastha ones :/ . (might be because of ASI that ust_ishim and malta harbor). </i>.<br /><br />The main reason that Andronovo,Sintashta don't work well as possible ancestral population to Indians because they all also have notable % of EEF/Anatolian related ancestry , that Indians lack as said previously .Also archaeologically, a mass movement from Andronovo horizon to India is disproved, already.<br /><br />Dravidians origin, I think the aDNA from S India is key. But imo they should be indigenous, we will see soon. BTW I am hearing Reich in his book explicitly says, that he's own opinion is that the PIE homeland was south of the Caucasus! :). But they still try to salvage the steppe thing in part, it seems.<br /><br />Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-83809861965198207102018-03-27T09:56:53.386-07:002018-03-27T09:56:53.386-07:00" What? :). " -- that sad smiley was bec..." What? :). " -- that sad smiley was because i think the sub-structuring and the strict marriage practices that the communities maintained for close to 70-80 generations with very low gene flow across them might be one of the reasons for the decline in last 1000 years. A dude known an Narendranath Dutta once told something similar some 100 years ago however he was no scientist :)<br /><br />i was talking to an bhartiya , he's R1a1-L657, he told me that out of andronovo,sintastha, ust_ishim and Malta boy , he had the highest match with Ust_ishim and then with Malta and lowest with andronovo and sintastha ones :/ . (might be because of ASI that ust_ishim and malta harbor). <br /> <br />Check out this stuff (shoddy piece though) - http://www.dailypioneer.com/vivacity/dravidian-languages-originated-4500-years-ago.html <br /><br />" About that component, it should be related to EEF (Early European Farmer) ancestry which ultimately came from anatolia(Anatolian Neolithic Farmers), the Sardinians are full of it " -- thank you , you have very patiently cleared lot of my doubts throughout the past 2 days. tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-84961156843637296212018-03-27T08:22:17.198-07:002018-03-27T08:22:17.198-07:00What? :).
About that component, it should be rela...What? :).<br /><br />About that component, it should be related to EEF (Early European Farmer) ancestry which ultimately came from anatolia(Anatolian Neolithic Farmers), the Sardinians are full of it :).The % in Indians however, is very small/noise level and not necessarily indicating any true ancestry.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-82835123291719842012018-03-27T08:06:46.621-07:002018-03-27T08:06:46.621-07:00" I think what you say is interesting :). &qu..." I think what you say is interesting :). " -- :( <br /><br />Nirjhar , in the admixture analysis of various populations , i see a small % dark blue component (typical of sardinians) in UP brahamins and khastriyas. What do you think is that component denoting ?<br /><br /> tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-86912121542905630472018-03-27T06:49:27.176-07:002018-03-27T06:49:27.176-07:00Though I am not sure on this, but the first draft ...Though I am not sure on this, but the first draft was based on the idea mainly that is the AIT, which is generally put around ~1500 bc, but later after fine tuning a bit , they had to change things a bit .I agree of course that the generation time is a bit high.<br /><br />I think what you say is interesting :).Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-50934042691136088102018-03-27T06:31:56.672-07:002018-03-27T06:31:56.672-07:00Nirjhar , if i remember correctly there was an ear...Nirjhar , if i remember correctly there was an earlier variant of Moorjani's model (2011) that estimated population mixture around 3500-1200 years but later in 2013 ,they estimated it around 4200-1900 years. I am not able to find the earlier paper. Do you know what led to the change of dates ? Also, they use the generation time as 29 years which is high in indian context as i wrote earlier. Somewhere between 23-25 years would be more suited considering people used to get married by 20 back in the classical age and pre-classical age :)<br /><br />Another question though a bit touchy but don't you think that the population bottleneck caused by sub-structuring for close to ~ 2000-1500 years has increased the disease rate in the population ? I mean for some groups ,it's worse than finnish and askenazi jews.<br /><br /> tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-4251510385925412192018-03-27T05:41:02.683-07:002018-03-27T05:41:02.683-07:00What you say is apparently ok, given the current s...What you say is apparently ok, given the current state of data :). But imo it is not very robust to relate y or mtdna to specific ancestry, mass migrations can be detected well from autosomal composition, but haplgroups are more independent and prone to ancestry change.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-13021659568098840692018-03-27T04:45:01.302-07:002018-03-27T04:45:01.302-07:00Nirjhar, is it ok to relate Y-haplogroups with com...Nirjhar, is it ok to relate Y-haplogroups with components like ANI/ASI and their subdivisions ? One can say that a layer of ANI comes from R1a (related to Steppe) and other one J2 + L (Iran_farmer). Similarly older J haplogroups related branches also found in isolated south indian tribes would likely form the part Iranian-Farmer like ancestry in ASI while H haplogroup would likely be the indigenous hunter gatherer,right ? <br />O2 would be the AAA component.<br />Where does R2 come into picture though ? tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-63642811675309773382018-03-27T02:58:52.257-07:002018-03-27T02:58:52.257-07:00I see :).I see :).Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-21104170640672126212018-03-27T02:56:54.456-07:002018-03-27T02:56:54.456-07:00Na, didn't see eurogenes though. The kindle-bo...Na, didn't see eurogenes though. The kindle-book costs less than 500 INR though .tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-78251396383167203082018-03-27T02:41:04.546-07:002018-03-27T02:41:04.546-07:00"I haven't read the book yet, don't e...<i>"I haven't read the book yet, don't expect he will go outside traditionalist AIT approach ." -- Closer in line to what a bird told me :) . Talks about how ASI is not itself a homogenous population but ASI itself might be a mixture of iranian-farmer related ancestry and native hunter-gatherer of South Asia. Seems like you MIGHT be right about two divisions of ASI. He is placing the arrival of ANI (steppe-related ancestry + iranian farmer related ancestry) after around 5000 years ago. Sprinklings of repressive nature of "you know what" added :) </i><br /><br />I accidentally deleted your comment :), yes, it is interesting.You mean this which was posted in Eurogenes ? :<br />https://s31.postimg.org/sf75kz5uz/screenshot_348.png<br />https://s31.postimg.org/oittp1aln/screenshot_349.pngNirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-57238653731656531782018-03-27T01:45:34.785-07:002018-03-27T01:45:34.785-07:00I think it should be in S asia from ~3000 BC at le...I think it should be in S asia from ~3000 BC at least. I don't think S Asian R1a is limited to R1a-Z93.<br /><br />I haven't read the book yet, don't expect he will go outside traditionalist AIT approach .Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3756272660800605663.post-76400042841790131082018-03-26T23:24:42.048-07:002018-03-26T23:24:42.048-07:00Nirjhar ,anything interesting in Reich's book ...Nirjhar ,anything interesting in Reich's book ?tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.com