Besides, this sign (the same for these signs > ka5, lib, lu5, lub, lul, nar, paḫ, šatam) is called the LUL sign; and the signs used for allutu (as the constellation of Cancer) is MUL.AL.LUL (or MUL.NAGAR); mul is for star,al for "hoe" and lul = [FALSE] (133x: Old Akkadian, Ur III, Old Babylonian) wr. lul "(to be) false; (to be) criminal" Akk. sarru. Maybe it's the devious animal, or perhaps it's because of its walking.
There is also a Tamil word alavan meaning "a crab": http://tamildictionary.org/tamil_english.php?id=1183 Some Tamil - Sumerian comparisons here: http://drkloganathan.blogspot.gr/2015/02/sumerian-tamil-of-first-cangkam.html they compared also allub - alavan.
BTW, at ToB there is this Nostratic root: Eurasiatic: *loḳV Meaning: fox, lynx Indo-European: *luḱ- Altaic: *l[ù]k`V Uralic: *lujV (? = *luKV); *lokka (Coll. 3) (see AD) Kartvelian: *leḳw- Dravidian: *nakk- Chukchee-Kamchatkan: *ɫeqɫŭ (cf. also *lhiɣ(ʷ)ŋǝ 'wolf') seems like a lVk/nVk, at least in case of the Dravidian.
About Sum. kušu [CREATURE] (12x: ED IIIa, Old Babylonian) wr. kušu2; kušu2ku6 "crab or a snapping turtle" again, having the same sign with ah (uh3) [SPITTLE] "a paste; phlegm, mucus, sputum; foam, scum; saliva, spittle; poison"; according to Gamkrelidze / Ivanov there is a Skrt. word kSIvati, meaning "spits" is mentioned, and I was thinking that the spelling could fit to the one of "kušu" (kušu2_), the Sumerian ah / uh being of some other, obvious, origin than kušu: https://books.google.gr/books?id=M2aqp2n2mKkC&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=ksivati+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=PPp5HXye2P&sig=qCb_Dz98VrvYI3z-pI6CHufGoLE&hl=el&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjX8sDS4-jZAhWJ2CwKHUZBA2gQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=ksivati%20sanskrit&f=false But I'm not sure about a word kSIvati, I haven't found it at "spoken sanskrit"; the connection with Gr. πτύω ptuo/ptyo is interesting, though dubious, according to my lexicon.
Thanks :) πτύω is here: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%CF%84%CF%8D%CF%89#Ancient_Greek It could be a "thorn cluster" Armenian tʿukʿ resembles to be like on, yet the Indic reflex here is eṣṭhīvati.
I think they are related to kSiv :) , there is also : thukk 6097 *thukk ʻ spit ʼ. [thūt] Pk. thukka -- n. ʻ spittle, phlegm ʼ; Ash. tuk ʻ spitting ʼ; Paš. thūk ʻ spittle ʼ, Woṭ. tuk, Phal. thuki, Sh. thúki f., K. thŏkh, dat. °ki f., S. thuka f., L. thukk f., WPah.bhad. thuk n., Ku. thūk, N. B. thuk, Or. thuka, Bhoj. thūk, Aw.lakh. thūku, H. thūk m., G. thũk n., M. thūk n.f.; <-> Pk. thukkaï ʻ spits ʼ, K. thŏkun, S. thukaṇu, L. thukkaṇ, P. thukkṇā, Ku. thukṇo, N. thuknu, B. thukā, Or. thukibā, Mth. thukab, H. thūknā, G. thũkvũ, M. thukṇẽ, thũkṇẽ. *thuṅga -- ʻ hill ʼ see *ṭakka -- 3. Addenda: *thukk -- : S.kcch. thūkṇū ʻ to spit ʼ, WPah.kṭg. (kc.) thúkṇõ; thūˊk m. ʻ spittle ʼ. http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/contextualize.pl?p.1.soas.2011586
There is a word in Greek ἐλλός ellos (B), ή, όν = A.= ἔλλοψ ellops "dumb" (q.v.); also variously expld. (ἀγαθόν agathon "good", γλαυκόν glaukon "gleaming", χαροπόν kharopon "fierce". . ταχύ takhy "fast" . . ὑγρόν hygron "wet, liquid") by Hesychius. Maybe there is a connection with illutu for the mlast meaning. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=e%29%2Flloy&la=greek&can=e%29%2Flloy0&prior=o/n&d=Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:alphabetic%20letter=*e:entry%20group=81:entry=e)llo/s&i=1
Maybe there is a connection to Sum. illu [WATER] (65x: Old Akkadian, Ur III, Old Babylonian) wr. illu "water; source, spring; waterlogging?; flood waters" Akk. mû; mīlu; namba'u; zâbu.
BTW illu [SONG] wr. il-lu "a song" and ilu [SONG] (114x: Old Babylonian) wr. i-lu "joyful song; lament" Akk. niûtu; qubû reminds the word elegy < ἐλεγεία elegeia "perhaps from Phrygian": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/elegy
Perhaps from a root meaning "to lament" (imitative), like in Latin ululo: "From a reduplicated Proto-Indo-European imitative root; see also Old English ule (“owl”), Gaelic uileliugh (“wail of lamentation”), Lithuanian uluti (“howl”), Sanskrit उलूलि (ulūli, “a howling, crying aloud”), Greek ολολύζειν (ololúzein, “to cry aloud”) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ululo In Sumerian there are also: ilalum [SONG] wr. i3-la-lum "a song", illalum [SONG], iluali [MOURNER], ilulamma [SONG], ilulu [SONG] (1x: Ur III) wr. i-lu-lu "a song" ilum [SONG] (13x: ED IIIb, Old Akkadian, Ur III) wr. i3-lum "a song".
The meanings of ἐλλός ellos (B), ή, όν = A.= ἔλλοψ ellops "dumb" (q.v.); like "gleaming", "fierce", "fast", "wet, liquid") by Hesychius could be perhaps applied to fish Here, about ellops "dumb" it is said that perhaps it could mean rather "scaly": http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3De)%2Flloy
There is also a Sum. ilim [RADIANCE] (8x: Old Babylonian) wr. i-lim "radiance; deathly silence" Akk. šalummatu; šaqummatu, which one could say is close to the meanings of "gleaming" and "dumb" of ellos.
Latin "silentio" could be also realated to a notion of liquid: From Proto-Indo-European *seyl- (“still, windless, quiet, slow”). Cognate with Proto-Germanic *siljaną. Related to Old English sālnes (“silence”), Old Norse sil (“slow flowing water”). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sileo#Latin
The word ikthus for "fish" in Greek is supposed to be connected to a root dhegh, perhaps related to a notion of "liquid" if you remember; Sum. tukur also about silence seems to be a thorn cluster like (TKr).
I'm not sure if there is aparallel like T-K'r / Sl / Hl here; Sum sig (as SK) also means silent; also Gr. σίγη sige "silence - ing Gr. BTW there is also σιωπή siope with the same meaning (also with an -op- suffix) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%83%CE%B9%CF%89%CF%80%CE%AE
About a possible "plossive loss" at these "il" words, for example; there is il [RAISE] (1362x: ED IIIb, Old Akkadian, Lagash II, Ur III, Early Old Babylonian, Old Babylonian) wr. il2; il5; il2li2 "to raise, carry" Akk. našû; ila [ELEVATION] (9x: Ur III, Old Babylonian, unknown) wr. il2-la; il2-la2 "elevation" Akk. mūlû; also il [TAX] wr. il2 "a tax" And these look close to some forms which in Greek are in "tel"; from this root *telə- (oldest form *telh2-). "To lift, support, weigh; with derivatives referring to measured weights and thence to money and payment." http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/roots.aspx?type=Indo-European&root=tel%C9%99- 1. Suffixed form *telə-mon-. telamon from Greek telamōn, supporter, bearer. 2. Suffixed form *tel(ə)-es-. a. toll1; philately from Greek telos, tax, charge; b. tolerate from Latin tolerāre, to bear, endure. 3. Suffixed zero-grade form *tl̥ə-i-. talion; retaliate from Latin tāliō, reciprocal punishment in kind, possibly "something paid out" from *tali- (influenced by tālis, such). 4. Suffixed variant zero-grade form *tala-nt-. talent from Greek talanton, balance, weight, any of several specific weights of gold or silver, hence the sum of money represented by such a weight. 5. Perhaps (but unlikely) intensive reduplicated form *tantal-. tantalize, Tantalus from Greek Tantalos, name of a legendary king, "the sufferer" 6. Perhaps (but unlikely) zero-grade form *tl̥ə-. Atlantic, Atlas from Greek Atlās (stem Atlant-), name of the Titan supporting the world. 7. Suffixed zero-grade form *tl̥ə-to-. ablation, ablative1, allative, collate, dilatory, elate, elative, illation, illative, legislator, oblate1, prelate, prolate, relate, sublate, superlative, translate from Latin lātus, "carried, borne" used as the suppletive past participle of ferre, to bear (see bher-1) , with its compounds. 8. Suffixed zero-grade form *tl̥ə-ā-. tola from Sanskrit tulā, scales, balance, weight. 9. Nasalized zero-grade form *tl̥-n-ə-. extol from Latin tollere, to lift.
with a "t" reminds Sum. til about life etc or "end" like in Gr. telos. ilu [GOD] (2x: Old Babylonian) wr. ilu "god" Akk. ilu, must be from Proto-Semitic "il" https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Semitic/%CA%BEil- it would be interesting if tel- like in "raise", or Sum. til "life" and Semitic il for "raise", also il for "god" would be ultimately connected.
About Sum. ildum [BAND] (4x: Old Babylonian) wr. ildum2; ildum "clan; band, cohorts, troops, reinforcements, help, caravan; dog pack" Akk. illātu; illatşâbi; piqittişâbi; illat kalbi they say it is from Akk. illātu, which is from the same root with Hebrew yeled "to be born, to bear a child"; this illātu looks like the similar word illātu for saliva; that's why I though that it could be related (somehow :D) to a TK formation, like the word for saliva could be with the "dhegh" root (in IE I can think of the TK of Gr. teknon "child" etc). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%93#Hebrew https://books.google.gr/books?id=-qIuVCsRb98C&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=akkadian+dictionary+illatu&source=bl&ots=BrceunNVJv&sig=K-YqOCbKNxuhImsWysRBo5MwPgo&hl=el&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjvyMeiwO7ZAhXI2qQKHW1yCvkQ6AEIPjAC#v=onepage&q=akkadian%20dictionary%20illatu&f=false On the other the meaning of illātu / ildum as "hand clan; band, cohorts, troops, reinforcements" reminds of the meaning of Gr. telos as troop etc
About the notion of "wet" I remember also Sum. tilhar for cloud; also Gr. telma for "marsh" (the last one I imagined as connected with tilmun :D); so I thoufght about a (t)il something here.
As saras- of sarasvati; like from K'rK' > SrS / but here like K'rK' > TrT, the last one as ("plosive loss" :D) HrT > 'lt- iluttu/ildu. Maybe also Gr. helos ( < saras) and telma (< tel-mn), both meaning "marsh" are connected. :D)
Another word in which we have met both notions of "wet" and "lift" (depends on the etymology) is ouranos ( <*worsanos) "sky", if from *h₁wers- “rain” or *h₃er- "to rise": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BF%E1%BD%90%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%8C%CF%82 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BD%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82#Ancient_Greek as a kind of Hr-S roots...
There is also a Gr. word ἴλη ile (con. ἴλλω, εἴλω) "1.a crowd, band, troop of men, Hdt., Soph.: εὔφρονες ἶλαι merry companies, Pind.; also, ἴλη λεόντων Eur. 2.a troop of horse, Lat. turma, ala, κατ᾽ ἴλας ῀ ἰλαδόν, Xen.": http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3Di)%2Flh From the same root with Latin vulgus : https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vulgus Pokorny's wel3 Root / lemma: u̯el-3
English meaning: to press, push
German meaning: `dröngen, pressen, zusammendröngen, einschließen'
Material: Hom. εἴλω eilo (*Fέλ-νω); Inf.-Aor. ἔλσαι and with suggestion ἐέλσαι, Aor. Pass. ἐάλην, ἀλήμεναι, ep. ion. εἰλέω eileo (*Fελ-νέω), att. εἴλλω eillo (*εFελι̯ω with Vorschlags-ε), dor. el. Fηλέω, redupl. ἴλλω (*Fί-Fλω) `drönge, push, press, presse'; lakon. βήλημα κώλυμα, φράγμα ἐν ποταμῷ Hes., messen. ἤλημα, ion. εἴλη `troop, multitude, crowd' (Fελν-), next to which probably with i = e (as πίλναμαι) att. ἴ̄λη, dor. ἴ̄λᾱ `troop, multitude, crowd' (*Fιλνᾱ), hom. (*ἰ̄λαδόν `scharenweise', pamph. Fίλσιος Gen. from -ις `crowdedness';
hom. (öol.) ἀελλής (*ἀFελνής) `dense zusammengezogen' (κονίσαλος) and ἀολλής (*ἀFολνής) `versammelt' (with öol. -ολ-); compare die auf *ἀFαλλής from *ἀFαλνής, *ἄFl̥νής zuröckgehenden ion. ἁ̄λής, ἀ̄λής `versammelt', ἁλίζω `versammle', ἁ̄λίη `congregation, meeting', dor. ἁ̄λία and ἁλιαία ds. (under likewise); att. ἡλιαία `place of Gerichts, das höchste court in Athen' together with ἡλιάζω, ἡλιαστής is borrowed from argiv. ἀ̄λιαίᾱ, ἁ̄λιάζω, with Ersetzung from dor. α through att. η, das as the Asper an ἥλιος eine pad fand; das anlaut. ἀ- is kopul. ἀ-;
ἅλις `scharenweise, sufficient' (Hom.), γάλι ἱκανόν Hes.; hom. οὑλαμός `Getömmel, Gewöhl' (because of γόλαμος διωγμός Hes. metr. lengthening for *Fολαμος), att. ἐξούλη `Verdröngung from Besitzrechten' (*Fολ-νᾱ);
Hello Nirjhar, Again about ilim [RADIANCE] (8x: Old Babylonian) wr. i-lim "radiance; deathly silence" Akk. šalummatu; šaqummatu A word in Greek that looks similar the meaning of "radiance" could be εἵλη heile "A.the sun's heat or warmth; also γέλαν (i. e. ϝέλαν）: αὐγὴν ἡλίου "light of the sun", according to Hesychius. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dei(%2Flh The type γέλα "gela" (γέλαν gelan is the Akkusative), compared to "heile" means that the "h" is due not to some "s" but to a w, so the root is *wel- again (maybe connected to swel- for sol-, hel- etc, if this *swel is from some k'wel-).
BTW, εἵλη heile reminds also Gr. δείλη deile "afternoon", which could be from some *gwel (?) > deil (?) http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3Ddei%2Flh
Hi Nirjhar, About Sum. ig [DOOR] (396x: Old Akkadian, Lagash II, Ur III, Early Old Babylonian, Old Babylonian) wr. ĝešig; ig "door" Akk. daltu; at the ePSD there is also ig gub [OPEN?] (4x: Old Babylonian) wr. ĝešig gub "to let a door stand open?; to dislodge a door" (ig[door] + gub[stand]). I cannot think of a Gr. word meaning "door" here; but I think there is one meaning "open"; used also, or mostly, for doors; this is οἴγω oigo "open": http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Doi)%2Fgw Etymology given: prob. ὀ-ϝειγ- [o-weig-] and ὀ-ϝι^γ- [o-wig-], cf. Skt. véga- 'quick movement' ; cf. ἐπῴχατο, προσοίγνυμι.） I've seen also a comparison to Skrt. vijate [vij-]: http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?tran_input=vijate&direct=se&script=hk&link=yes&mode=3 with a meaning of violent moving (like moving the door perhaps). This is random, obviously, I think just this root *w(e)ig could fit morphologically to Sum. "ig".
About these il words, like ila "elavation" etc there is also a Sum. la [HANG] (1399x: ED IIIa, ED IIIb, Old Akkadian, Lagash II, Ur III, Early Old Babylonian, Old Babylonian) wr. la2; la; lal2 "to supervise, check; to weigh, weigh (out), pay; to hang, balance, suspend, be suspended; to show, display; to bind; binding, (yoke-)team; to press, throttle; to winnow (grain); to carry" Akk. alālu; hanāqu; hiāţu; kamû; kasû; şimittu; kullumu; šaqālu; šuqalulu; zarû According to J. Halloran is lal, lá: v., to be high; to hold; to lift; to carry; to hang (from) (with -ta-); to weigh; to pay; to deduce; to strap, harness (with -ši-); to dress oneself; to place, set; to bind (a reed pillar); to stretch, extend, reach; to load; to lessen, be few, diminish; to accuse, denounce; to fall back, retreat (cf. also, lá) (reduplicated íla, 'to carry, support') [LA2 archaic frequency: 57]. adj., light, deficient; minus (cf. also, lá).
Maybe there is a connection also to *telH, like we assumed with ila https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/telh%E2%82%82- Though I'm not sure exactly if lal is a reduplication of la which could be from ila, or if we could assume a lal/tal equation (like in case of d/l).
Sum. lal "strap" is most probably connected to la/lal "hang" etc; and, if you remember, I had this idea that this lal for strap could be perhaps related to the root of Latin "lorum"; with ambiguous etymology, maybe from *wel "turn" (like in kwel/wel/tel), but nothing is sure: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lorum#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D5%AC%D5%A1%D6%80#Old_Armenian In any case we could have a l/r situation here.
BTW, I had another curious idea also about Sum. kar [BLOW] (52x: Ur III, Old Babylonian) wr. kar2-kar2; kar2 "to blow; to light up, shine; to rise" Akk. napāhu If we assume that ila "elevation" and la/lal "hang, suspend" are connected; also the notions of light up. rise are connected too, like in Sum. kar; then Gr. κρεμάννυμι kremannymi "to hang up" etc, maybe ultimately from some *ker- (like *trem if from *ter).... https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%B5%CE%BC%CE%AC%CE%BD%CE%BD%CF%85%CE%BC%CE%B9 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%84%CF%81%CE%AD%CE%BC%CF%89#Ancient_Greek ... could be perhaps connected to Latin cremo "to burn" *( < *krem < *ker ?) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cremo#Latin
This *krem of κρεμάννυμι is seen by some as the root of Skrt. s'ram- "fatigue, toil" etc (it is stated also by Mayrhofer): http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?tran_input=zrama&direct=se&script=hk&link=yes&mode=3
Hi Nirjhar, I could not find s'ram in Pokorny, which has a root (ker-5?), kō̆r- "to hang": Material: Lit. kariù, kárti `with a Strick erhöngen', lett. kar'u, kãrt `höngen', lit. pakara `Kleiderstönder, peg, plug zum Kleideraufhöngen', lett. pakars `hook zum Aufhöngen', Old Prussian paccaris `strap', lit. pakorė̃ `gallows'; perhaps also lit. prã-kartas `crib, manger', Old Prussian pracartis `trough', if originally `vorgehöngter Futtersack'; in addition perhaps as extension *krem(ǝ)- in gr. κρεμάννυμι `hönge', older κρίμνημι ds. (besides κρήμνημι, s. Specht KZ 59, 97), κρέμαμαι `hange', κρεμάθρᾱ `Höngematte', zero grade κρημνός `slope'.
κρημνός kreemnos "slope" (also bank" etc) leads to the other Sum kar "bank" etc, I think. Its etymology is dubious, though (I remembered a similar root of Bomhard you have posted about this Sum. word for bank, I think it was k'ar or something like). https://translate.academic.ru/%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%BD%CF%8C%CF%82/el/xx/
I think. Its etymology is dubious, though (I remembered a similar root of Bomhard you have posted about this Sum. word for bank, I think it was k'ar or something like).
Many roots we have seen use to have their origin at some kind of "circular motion" :D; this is also for "uplifting", "hanging" and other related things... BTW, I have now an idea, that if *krem is an extension of som *ker and Skrt. s'ram for "fatigue" etc is realeted to that root, then there is perhaps a possibility of a comparison with Greek κάρος karos "heavy sleep, deep sleep" (from some **kar obviously): http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dka%2Fros1 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/carus
Many roots we have seen use to have their origin at some kind of "circular motion" :D; this is also for "uplifting", "hanging" and other related things...
Yeah :D .
*krem is an extension of som *ker and Skrt. s'ram for "fatigue" etc is realeted to that root, then there is perhaps a possibility of a comparison with Greek κάρος karos "heavy sleep, deep sleep" (from some **kar obviously)
An interesting thing is that, according to Pokorny and others, Gr. κάρος karos "heavy sleep, deep sleep" is connected to the root of "head" (k'er). Maybe this was also connected to a meaning of "uplift, elevated".
It's also that the head is round... But I think we have said already about that, haven't we? (I don't remember all of what have been said all these years :D) As I have seen somewhere, there is also Skrt. klama for "fatigue, exhausted": http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?tran_input=klama&direct=se&script=hk&link=yes&mode=3 which, according to the author, is a KLM version of the SRM. Meaning, it must be a KL/KR/SR situation.
Pokorny has this root / lemma: klem-, klēm-, klem- English meaning: weak, ailing, feeble German meaning: `schlaff, matt, siech' Note: (barely better as klēm- : klǝm- must be assumed) Material: Das Old Indian bietet on the one hand klā́myati, klā́mati `wird tired, erschlafft', on the other hand śrā́myati `wird tired, möht sich ab, kasteit sich', śrāntá- `ermödet, abgearbeitet', śráma- m. `Ermödung, tiredness, Erschöpfung'; śramaṇá- `sich kasteiend, Bettelmönch' is about die ostasiat. Sprachen as Schamane `magician' after Europa gekommen (idg. Reihenwechselö; also die Doppeldeutigkeit the Liquida erschwert das judgement; from kerm- `exhaust' jedenfalls wenigstens through die Vokalstellunggeschieden); gr. κλαμαράν πλαδαράν, ἀσθενῆ Hes.; air. clam `Aussötziger', cymr. acorn. claf, mbret. claff, nbret. klañv, klañ `sick'. References: WP. I 498. Page(s): 602-603 According though to others Gr. κλαμαρός klamaros (meaning in Hesychius also "sick") is supposed to be a variation of κλαδαρός kladaros http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dklamaro%2Fs which means also something "shaking", suggesting a parssage to KRD (KLD > KRD) like "heart" etc. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dkladaro%2Fs And I'm a little confused; Sum. saĝ "head" and šag "heart" look close, too. Probably unrelated, though.
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«Oldest ‹Older 2201 – 2273 of 2273True ! :D .
Besides, this sign (the same for these signs > ka5, lib, lu5, lub, lul, nar, paḫ, šatam) is called the LUL sign; and the signs used for allutu (as the constellation of Cancer) is MUL.AL.LUL (or MUL.NAGAR); mul is for star,al for "hoe" and lul = [FALSE] (133x: Old Akkadian, Ur III, Old Babylonian) wr. lul "(to be) false; (to be) criminal" Akk. sarru. Maybe it's the devious animal, or perhaps it's because of its walking.
Yes that is possible :) .
There is also a Tamil word alavan meaning "a crab":
http://tamildictionary.org/tamil_english.php?id=1183
Some Tamil - Sumerian comparisons here:
http://drkloganathan.blogspot.gr/2015/02/sumerian-tamil-of-first-cangkam.html
they compared also allub - alavan.
BTW, at ToB there is this Nostratic root:
Eurasiatic: *loḳV
Meaning: fox, lynx
Indo-European: *luḱ-
Altaic: *l[ù]k`V
Uralic: *lujV (? = *luKV); *lokka (Coll. 3) (see AD)
Kartvelian: *leḳw-
Dravidian: *nakk-
Chukchee-Kamchatkan: *ɫeqɫŭ (cf. also *lhiɣ(ʷ)ŋǝ 'wolf')
seems like a lVk/nVk, at least in case of the Dravidian.
Oh yes , I agree with you :) .
About Sum. kušu [CREATURE] (12x: ED IIIa, Old Babylonian) wr. kušu2; kušu2ku6 "crab or a snapping turtle" again, having the same sign with ah (uh3) [SPITTLE] "a paste; phlegm, mucus, sputum; foam, scum; saliva, spittle; poison"; according to Gamkrelidze / Ivanov there is a Skrt. word kSIvati, meaning "spits" is mentioned, and I was thinking that the spelling could fit to the one of "kušu" (kušu2_), the Sumerian ah / uh being of some other, obvious, origin than kušu:
https://books.google.gr/books?id=M2aqp2n2mKkC&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=ksivati+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=PPp5HXye2P&sig=qCb_Dz98VrvYI3z-pI6CHufGoLE&hl=el&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjX8sDS4-jZAhWJ2CwKHUZBA2gQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=ksivati%20sanskrit&f=false
But I'm not sure about a word kSIvati, I haven't found it at "spoken sanskrit"; the connection with Gr. πτύω ptuo/ptyo is interesting, though dubious, according to my lexicon.
Here it is : :)
http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?mode=3&script=hk&tran_input=kSiv&direct=au
Thanks :) πτύω is here:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%CF%84%CF%8D%CF%89#Ancient_Greek
It could be a "thorn cluster" Armenian tʿukʿ resembles to be like on, yet the Indic reflex here is eṣṭhīvati.
I think they are related to kSiv :) , there is also : thukk 6097 *thukk ʻ spit ʼ. [thūt]
Pk. thukka -- n. ʻ spittle, phlegm ʼ; Ash. tuk ʻ spitting ʼ; Paš. thūk ʻ spittle ʼ, Woṭ. tuk, Phal. thuki, Sh. thúki f., K. thŏkh, dat. °ki f., S. thuka f., L. thukk f., WPah.bhad. thuk n., Ku. thūk, N. B. thuk, Or. thuka, Bhoj. thūk, Aw.lakh. thūku, H. thūk m., G. thũk n., M. thūk n.f.; <-> Pk. thukkaï ʻ spits ʼ, K. thŏkun, S. thukaṇu, L. thukkaṇ, P. thukkṇā, Ku. thukṇo, N. thuknu, B. thukā, Or. thukibā, Mth. thukab, H. thūknā, G. thũkvũ, M. thukṇẽ, thũkṇẽ.
*thuṅga -- ʻ hill ʼ see *ṭakka -- 3.
Addenda: *thukk -- : S.kcch. thūkṇū ʻ to spit ʼ, WPah.kṭg. (kc.) thúkṇõ; thūˊk m. ʻ spittle ʼ.
http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/contextualize.pl?p.1.soas.2011586
Very interesting :)
About ah [SPITTLE] (12x: Old Babylonian) wr. ah6; uh3; aah "a paste; phlegm, mucus, sputum; foam, scum; saliva, spittle; poison" Akk. hahhu; hurhummatu; illātu; imtu; ru'tu; rupuštu; uhhu - the Akkadian illātu looks Akkadian allutu for "crab" :D
;Also, about Akkadian illatu for "spittle" here:
https://books.google.gr/books?id=Tu-MYstDdvoC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=Akkadian+illatu&source=bl&ots=RpsLyvS2vS&sig=omAFoDgDdAg5Ms_bV-M3vCqACdk&hl=el&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwinro-x_ujZAhUCJsAKHZQ5D4QQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Akkadian%20illatu&f=false
the Akkadian illātu looks Akkadian allutu for "crab" :D
Yes :D .
There is a word in Greek ἐλλός ellos (B), ή, όν = A.= ἔλλοψ ellops "dumb" (q.v.); also variously expld. (ἀγαθόν agathon "good", γλαυκόν glaukon "gleaming", χαροπόν kharopon "fierce". . ταχύ takhy "fast" . . ὑγρόν hygron "wet, liquid") by Hesychius. Maybe there is a connection with illutu for the mlast meaning.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=e%29%2Flloy&la=greek&can=e%29%2Flloy0&prior=o/n&d=Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:alphabetic%20letter=*e:entry%20group=81:entry=e)llo/s&i=1
Yes :) .
Maybe there is a connection to Sum. illu [WATER] (65x: Old Akkadian, Ur III, Old Babylonian) wr. illu "water; source, spring; waterlogging?; flood waters" Akk. mû; mīlu; namba'u; zâbu.
Possible :) .
BTW illu [SONG] wr. il-lu "a song" and ilu [SONG] (114x: Old Babylonian) wr. i-lu "joyful song; lament" Akk. niûtu; qubû
reminds the word elegy < ἐλεγεία elegeia "perhaps from Phrygian":
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/elegy
Interesting! :) .
Perhaps from a root meaning "to lament" (imitative), like in Latin ululo: "From a reduplicated Proto-Indo-European imitative root; see also Old English ule (“owl”), Gaelic uileliugh (“wail of lamentation”), Lithuanian uluti (“howl”), Sanskrit उलूलि (ulūli, “a howling, crying aloud”), Greek ολολύζειν (ololúzein, “to cry aloud”)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ululo
In Sumerian there are also: ilalum [SONG] wr. i3-la-lum "a song", illalum [SONG], iluali [MOURNER], ilulamma [SONG], ilulu [SONG] (1x: Ur III) wr. i-lu-lu "a song" ilum [SONG] (13x: ED IIIb, Old Akkadian, Ur III) wr. i3-lum "a song".
Makes sense :) .
The meanings of ἐλλός ellos (B), ή, όν = A.= ἔλλοψ ellops "dumb" (q.v.); like "gleaming", "fierce", "fast", "wet, liquid") by Hesychius could be perhaps applied to fish
Here, about ellops "dumb" it is said that perhaps it could mean rather "scaly":
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3De)%2Flloy
There is also a Sum. ilim [RADIANCE] (8x: Old Babylonian) wr. i-lim "radiance; deathly silence" Akk. šalummatu; šaqummatu, which one could say is close to the meanings of "gleaming"
and "dumb" of ellos.
Yes :) .
Latin "silentio" could be also realated to a notion of liquid: From Proto-Indo-European *seyl- (“still, windless, quiet, slow”). Cognate with Proto-Germanic *siljaną. Related to Old English sālnes (“silence”), Old Norse sil (“slow flowing water”).
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sileo#Latin
Interesting suggestion :) .
The word ikthus for "fish" in Greek is supposed to be connected to a root dhegh, perhaps related to a notion of "liquid" if you remember; Sum. tukur also about silence seems to be a thorn cluster like (TKr).
Yup :) .
I'm not sure if there is aparallel like T-K'r / Sl / Hl here; Sum sig (as SK) also means silent; also Gr. σίγη sige "silence - ing Gr. BTW there is also σιωπή siope with the same meaning (also with an -op- suffix)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%83%CE%B9%CF%89%CF%80%CE%AE
I see .
About a possible "plossive loss" at these "il" words, for example; there is il [RAISE] (1362x: ED IIIb, Old Akkadian, Lagash II, Ur III, Early Old Babylonian, Old Babylonian) wr. il2; il5; il2li2 "to raise, carry" Akk. našû; ila [ELEVATION] (9x: Ur III, Old Babylonian, unknown) wr. il2-la; il2-la2 "elevation" Akk. mūlû; also il [TAX] wr. il2 "a tax"
And these look close to some forms which in Greek are in "tel"; from this root *telə- (oldest form *telh2-). "To lift, support, weigh; with derivatives referring to measured weights and thence to money and payment."
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/roots.aspx?type=Indo-European&root=tel%C9%99-
1. Suffixed form *telə-mon-. telamon from Greek telamōn, supporter, bearer.
2. Suffixed form *tel(ə)-es-.
a. toll1; philately from Greek telos, tax, charge;
b. tolerate from Latin tolerāre, to bear, endure.
3. Suffixed zero-grade form *tl̥ə-i-. talion; retaliate from Latin tāliō, reciprocal punishment in kind, possibly "something paid out" from *tali- (influenced by tālis, such).
4. Suffixed variant zero-grade form *tala-nt-. talent from Greek talanton, balance, weight, any of several specific weights of gold or silver, hence the sum of money represented by such a weight.
5. Perhaps (but unlikely) intensive reduplicated form *tantal-. tantalize, Tantalus from Greek Tantalos, name of a legendary king, "the sufferer"
6. Perhaps (but unlikely) zero-grade form *tl̥ə-. Atlantic, Atlas from Greek Atlās (stem Atlant-), name of the Titan supporting the world.
7. Suffixed zero-grade form *tl̥ə-to-. ablation, ablative1, allative, collate, dilatory, elate, elative, illation, illative, legislator, oblate1, prelate, prolate, relate, sublate, superlative, translate from Latin lātus, "carried, borne" used as the suppletive past participle of ferre, to bear (see bher-1) , with its compounds.
8. Suffixed zero-grade form *tl̥ə-ā-. tola from Sanskrit tulā, scales, balance, weight.
9. Nasalized zero-grade form *tl̥-n-ə-. extol from Latin tollere, to lift.
Yes, very interesting! :) .
with a "t" reminds Sum. til about life etc or "end" like in Gr. telos.
ilu [GOD] (2x: Old Babylonian) wr. ilu "god" Akk. ilu, must be from Proto-Semitic "il"
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Semitic/%CA%BEil-
it would be interesting if tel- like in "raise", or Sum. til "life" and Semitic il for "raise", also il for "god" would be ultimately connected.
I agree :) .
About Sum. ildum [BAND] (4x: Old Babylonian) wr. ildum2; ildum "clan; band, cohorts, troops, reinforcements, help, caravan; dog pack" Akk. illātu; illatşâbi; piqittişâbi; illat kalbi
they say it is from Akk. illātu, which is from the same root with Hebrew yeled "to be born, to bear a child"; this illātu looks like the similar word illātu for saliva; that's why I though that it could be related (somehow :D) to a TK formation, like the word for saliva could be with the "dhegh" root (in IE I can think of the TK of Gr. teknon "child" etc).
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%93#Hebrew
https://books.google.gr/books?id=-qIuVCsRb98C&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=akkadian+dictionary+illatu&source=bl&ots=BrceunNVJv&sig=K-YqOCbKNxuhImsWysRBo5MwPgo&hl=el&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjvyMeiwO7ZAhXI2qQKHW1yCvkQ6AEIPjAC#v=onepage&q=akkadian%20dictionary%20illatu&f=false
On the other the meaning of illātu / ildum as "hand clan; band, cohorts, troops, reinforcements" reminds of the meaning of Gr. telos as troop etc
I agree! :D .
About the notion of "wet" I remember also Sum. tilhar for cloud; also Gr. telma for "marsh" (the last one I imagined as connected with tilmun :D); so I thoufght about a (t)il something here.
Yes :D .
As saras- of sarasvati; like from K'rK' > SrS / but here like K'rK' > TrT, the last one as ("plosive loss" :D) HrT > 'lt- iluttu/ildu.
Maybe also Gr. helos ( < saras) and telma (< tel-mn), both meaning "marsh" are connected. :D)
! :D .
After all, when we first guessed about a "plosive loss",it was in case of Sum. allanum / Akk. allānu (comparing Gr. balanos etc).
Yes :) .
Another word in which we have met both notions of "wet" and "lift" (depends on the etymology) is ouranos ( <*worsanos) "sky", if from *h₁wers- “rain” or *h₃er- "to rise":
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BF%E1%BD%90%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%8C%CF%82
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BD%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82#Ancient_Greek
as a kind of Hr-S roots...
Yup :) .
There is also a Gr. word ἴλη ile (con. ἴλλω, εἴλω) "1.a crowd, band, troop of men, Hdt., Soph.: εὔφρονες ἶλαι merry companies, Pind.; also, ἴλη λεόντων Eur.
2.a troop of horse, Lat. turma, ala, κατ᾽ ἴλας ῀ ἰλαδόν, Xen.":
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3Di)%2Flh
From the same root with Latin vulgus : https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vulgus
Pokorny's wel3
Root / lemma: u̯el-3
English meaning: to press, push
German meaning: `dröngen, pressen, zusammendröngen, einschließen'
Material: Hom. εἴλω eilo (*Fέλ-νω); Inf.-Aor. ἔλσαι and with suggestion ἐέλσαι, Aor. Pass. ἐάλην, ἀλήμεναι, ep. ion. εἰλέω eileo (*Fελ-νέω), att. εἴλλω eillo (*εFελι̯ω with Vorschlags-ε), dor. el. Fηλέω, redupl. ἴλλω (*Fί-Fλω) `drönge, push, press, presse'; lakon. βήλημα κώλυμα, φράγμα ἐν ποταμῷ Hes., messen. ἤλημα, ion. εἴλη `troop, multitude, crowd' (Fελν-), next to which probably with i = e (as πίλναμαι) att. ἴ̄λη, dor. ἴ̄λᾱ `troop, multitude, crowd' (*Fιλνᾱ), hom. (*ἰ̄λαδόν `scharenweise', pamph. Fίλσιος Gen. from -ις `crowdedness';
hom. (öol.) ἀελλής (*ἀFελνής) `dense zusammengezogen' (κονίσαλος) and ἀολλής (*ἀFολνής) `versammelt' (with öol. -ολ-); compare die auf *ἀFαλλής from *ἀFαλνής, *ἄFl̥νής zuröckgehenden ion. ἁ̄λής, ἀ̄λής `versammelt', ἁλίζω `versammle', ἁ̄λίη `congregation, meeting', dor. ἁ̄λία and ἁλιαία ds. (under likewise); att. ἡλιαία `place of Gerichts, das höchste court in Athen' together with ἡλιάζω, ἡλιαστής is borrowed from argiv. ἀ̄λιαίᾱ, ἁ̄λιάζω, with Ersetzung from dor. α through att. η, das as the Asper an ἥλιος eine pad fand; das anlaut. ἀ- is kopul. ἀ-;
ἅλις `scharenweise, sufficient' (Hom.), γάλι ἱκανόν Hes.; hom. οὑλαμός `Getömmel, Gewöhl' (because of γόλαμος διωγμός Hes. metr. lengthening for *Fολαμος), att. ἐξούλη `Verdröngung from Besitzrechten' (*Fολ-νᾱ);
lit. vãlinas `Wall', valinỹs `Tuchecke', lett. valnis `edge', su-valýti `(corn, grain) zusammenbringen, reap', lit. iš-valýti `heraus-, fortschaffen', valýti `clean'; Old Church Slavic *velь (: gr. ἅλις) in velьḫmi, -ma `very, excessive', velьḫlěpъ `very beautiful', velijь, velikъ `big, large', *valъ `heap, bulk, mass' (*u̯ōlos) in russ. válom `in bulk, mass', navál `großer heap', zavál `Verstopfung, Sperre', privál `Landen' (*Andröngen), válьmja `haufenweise' etc.;
g-extension is probably lat. volgus, vulgus `das people' (= `big, giant bulk, mass of people', compare above russ. valomъ, valьmja) = Old Indian várga- m. `dividing off, partitioning off, group', mbret. gwalch `Überfluß', nbret. a-walc'h `sufficient' (compare ἅλις), gwalc'ha `söttigen', cymr. gwala `bulk, mass, sufficient'; toch. В walke `long'.
Yes :) .
I mean the possible *kwel / *wel connection (also having in mind the kwel/>tel for telos "troops").
Of course! :) .
Hello Nirjhar,
Again about ilim [RADIANCE] (8x: Old Babylonian) wr. i-lim "radiance; deathly silence" Akk. šalummatu; šaqummatu
A word in Greek that looks similar the meaning of "radiance" could be εἵλη heile "A.the sun's heat or warmth; also γέλαν (i. e. ϝέλαν）: αὐγὴν ἡλίου "light of the sun", according to Hesychius.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dei(%2Flh
The type γέλα "gela" (γέλαν gelan is the Akkusative), compared to "heile" means that the "h" is due not to some "s" but to a w, so the root is *wel- again (maybe connected to swel- for sol-, hel- etc, if this *swel is from some k'wel-).
Yes, I agree :) .
BTW, εἵλη heile reminds also Gr. δείλη deile "afternoon", which could be from some *gwel (?) > deil (?)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3Ddei%2Flh
Yes, it is good imo :) .
Hi Nirjhar,
About Sum. ig [DOOR] (396x: Old Akkadian, Lagash II, Ur III, Early Old Babylonian, Old Babylonian) wr. ĝešig; ig "door" Akk. daltu; at the ePSD there is also ig gub [OPEN?] (4x: Old Babylonian) wr. ĝešig gub "to let a door stand open?; to dislodge a door" (ig[door] + gub[stand]).
I cannot think of a Gr. word meaning "door" here; but I think there is one meaning "open"; used also, or mostly, for doors; this is οἴγω oigo "open":
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Doi)%2Fgw
Etymology given: prob. ὀ-ϝειγ- [o-weig-] and ὀ-ϝι^γ- [o-wig-], cf. Skt. véga- 'quick movement' ; cf. ἐπῴχατο, προσοίγνυμι.）
I've seen also a comparison to Skrt. vijate [vij-]:
http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?tran_input=vijate&direct=se&script=hk&link=yes&mode=3
with a meaning of violent moving (like moving the door perhaps).
This is random, obviously, I think just this root *w(e)ig could fit morphologically to Sum. "ig".
Yes, I agree with you :).
About these il words, like ila "elavation" etc there is also a Sum. la [HANG] (1399x: ED IIIa, ED IIIb, Old Akkadian, Lagash II, Ur III, Early Old Babylonian, Old Babylonian) wr. la2; la; lal2 "to supervise, check; to weigh, weigh (out), pay; to hang, balance, suspend, be suspended; to show, display; to bind; binding, (yoke-)team; to press, throttle; to winnow (grain); to carry" Akk. alālu; hanāqu; hiāţu; kamû; kasû; şimittu; kullumu; šaqālu; šuqalulu; zarû
According to J. Halloran is lal, lá: v., to be high; to hold; to lift; to carry; to hang (from) (with -ta-); to weigh; to pay; to deduce;
to strap, harness (with -ši-); to dress oneself; to place, set; to bind (a reed pillar); to stretch, extend, reach; to load; to lessen, be few, diminish; to accuse, denounce; to fall back, retreat (cf. also, lá) (reduplicated íla, 'to carry, support') [LA2 archaic frequency: 57]. adj., light, deficient; minus (cf. also, lá).
Maybe there is a connection also to *telH, like we assumed with ila
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/telh%E2%82%82-
Though I'm not sure exactly if lal is a reduplication of la which could be from ila, or if we could assume a lal/tal equation (like in case of d/l).
Very interesting! :).
Sum. lal "strap" is most probably connected to la/lal "hang" etc; and, if you remember, I had this idea that this lal for strap could be perhaps related to the root of Latin "lorum"; with ambiguous etymology, maybe from *wel "turn" (like in kwel/wel/tel), but nothing is sure:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lorum#Latin
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D5%AC%D5%A1%D6%80#Old_Armenian
In any case we could have a l/r situation here.
I of course agree :).
BTW, I had another curious idea also about Sum. kar [BLOW] (52x: Ur III, Old Babylonian) wr. kar2-kar2; kar2 "to blow; to light up, shine; to rise" Akk. napāhu
If we assume that ila "elevation" and la/lal "hang, suspend" are connected; also the notions of light up. rise are connected too, like in Sum. kar; then Gr. κρεμάννυμι kremannymi "to hang up" etc, maybe ultimately from some *ker- (like *trem if from *ter).... https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%B5%CE%BC%CE%AC%CE%BD%CE%BD%CF%85%CE%BC%CE%B9
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%84%CF%81%CE%AD%CE%BC%CF%89#Ancient_Greek
... could be perhaps connected to Latin cremo "to burn" *( < *krem < *ker ?)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cremo#Latin
This is fascinating again :).
This *krem of κρεμάννυμι is seen by some as the root of Skrt. s'ram- "fatigue, toil" etc (it is stated also by Mayrhofer):
http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?tran_input=zrama&direct=se&script=hk&link=yes&mode=3
Yes :).
Hi Nirjhar,
I could not find s'ram in Pokorny, which has a root (ker-5?), kō̆r- "to hang": Material: Lit. kariù, kárti `with a Strick erhöngen', lett. kar'u, kãrt `höngen', lit. pakara `Kleiderstönder, peg, plug zum Kleideraufhöngen', lett. pakars `hook zum Aufhöngen', Old Prussian paccaris `strap', lit. pakorė̃ `gallows'; perhaps also lit. prã-kartas `crib, manger', Old Prussian pracartis `trough', if originally `vorgehöngter Futtersack'; in addition perhaps as extension *krem(ǝ)- in gr. κρεμάννυμι `hönge', older κρίμνημι ds. (besides κρήμνημι, s. Specht KZ 59, 97), κρέμαμαι `hange', κρεμάθρᾱ `Höngematte', zero grade κρημνός `slope'.
κρημνός kreemnos "slope" (also bank" etc) leads to the other Sum kar "bank" etc, I think. Its etymology is dubious, though (I remembered a similar root of Bomhard you have posted about this Sum. word for bank, I think it was k'ar or something like).
https://translate.academic.ru/%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%BD%CF%8C%CF%82/el/xx/
I think. Its etymology is dubious, though (I remembered a similar root of Bomhard you have posted about this Sum. word for bank, I think it was k'ar or something like).
I agree! :).
kar [HARBOR] (251x: ED IIIa, ED IIIb, Old Akkadian, Lagash II, Ur III, Early Old Babylonian, Old Babylonian) wr. kar "harbor, quay" Akk. kāru
Bomhard's root was this one, I think:
425. Proto-Nostratic (n.) *kºar-a ‘edge, side, bank’
Perhaps a derivative of:
(vb.) *kºar- ‘to twist, turn, spin, or wind around’;
(n.) *kºar-a ‘ring, circle, curve’; (adj.) ‘round, curved, twisted’
I think so :).
Many roots we have seen use to have their origin at some kind of "circular motion" :D; this is also for "uplifting", "hanging" and other related things...
BTW, I have now an idea, that if *krem is an extension of som *ker and Skrt. s'ram for "fatigue" etc is realeted to that root, then there is perhaps a possibility of a comparison with Greek κάρος karos "heavy sleep, deep sleep" (from some **kar obviously):
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dka%2Fros1
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/carus
Many roots we have seen use to have their origin at some kind of "circular motion" :D; this is also for "uplifting", "hanging" and other related things...
Yeah :D .
*krem is an extension of som *ker and Skrt. s'ram for "fatigue" etc is realeted to that root, then there is perhaps a possibility of a comparison with Greek κάρος karos "heavy sleep, deep sleep" (from some **kar obviously)
I agree! :).
An interesting thing is that, according to Pokorny and others, Gr. κάρος karos "heavy sleep, deep sleep" is connected to the root of "head" (k'er). Maybe this was also connected to a meaning of "uplift, elevated".
This is a very good notion Kyriakos!:).
It's also that the head is round... But I think we have said already about that, haven't we? (I don't remember all of what have been said all these years :D)
As I have seen somewhere, there is also Skrt. klama for "fatigue, exhausted":
http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?tran_input=klama&direct=se&script=hk&link=yes&mode=3
which, according to the author, is a KLM version of the SRM.
Meaning, it must be a KL/KR/SR situation.
Thanks , I agree! .
Pokorny has this root / lemma: klem-, klēm-, klem-
English meaning: weak, ailing, feeble
German meaning: `schlaff, matt, siech'
Note: (barely better as klēm- : klǝm- must be assumed)
Material: Das Old Indian bietet on the one hand klā́myati, klā́mati `wird tired, erschlafft', on the other hand śrā́myati `wird tired, möht sich ab, kasteit sich', śrāntá- `ermödet, abgearbeitet', śráma- m. `Ermödung, tiredness, Erschöpfung'; śramaṇá- `sich kasteiend, Bettelmönch' is about die ostasiat. Sprachen as Schamane `magician' after Europa gekommen (idg. Reihenwechselö; also die Doppeldeutigkeit the Liquida erschwert das judgement; from kerm- `exhaust' jedenfalls wenigstens through die Vokalstellunggeschieden);
gr. κλαμαράν πλαδαράν, ἀσθενῆ Hes.;
air. clam `Aussötziger', cymr. acorn. claf, mbret. claff, nbret. klañv, klañ `sick'.
References: WP. I 498.
Page(s): 602-603
According though to others Gr. κλαμαρός klamaros (meaning in Hesychius also "sick") is supposed to be a variation of κλαδαρός kladaros
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dklamaro%2Fs
which means also something "shaking", suggesting a parssage to KRD (KLD > KRD) like "heart" etc.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dkladaro%2Fs
And I'm a little confused; Sum. saĝ "head" and šag "heart" look close, too. Probably unrelated, though.
According though to others Gr. κλαμαρός klamaros (meaning in Hesychius also "sick") is supposed to be a variation of κλαδαρός kladaros
I see :).
And I'm a little confused; Sum. saĝ "head" and šag "heart" look close, too.
Yeah :D.
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